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Post by philiprosenthal on Jun 21, 2006 10:56:03 GMT
I think we have several different categories of leaders and we must be careful not to mix them all:
1. Hypocritical and abusive cultic leaders (very powerful minority). 2. Evangelical leaders who know about such behaviour and tolerate it for whatever reason, but don't perpetrate or teach such cultism themselves. 3. Evangelical leaders who are mostly unaware of the hypocrisy and abuse going on in the organisation and are just wanting to serve God and don't cause any trouble themselves. Often they at times become victims of the abusive leaders, but they tolerate it mostly because the abusive leaders give them their opportunity to serve God in the organisation. They are aware of some things that are wrong, but not the seriousness of the full picture. 4. Evangelical leaders who realise how bad things are; speak out against the cultic hypocrites and usually as a result get pushed out of the organisation as a result. 5. Evangelical leaders who realise some stuff is wrong, but just try isolate their congregation from the hypocrisy and abuse. 6. Evanglical leaders who realise stuff is wrong and speak out a little bit, but not really confront evil because they don't want to have to leave their friends in the organisation. Often they achive some minor piecemeal victories and accept this without pushing further for major reform.
I as formerly a category 3 leader and then became a category 4 leader. I know many others who fit into all of the above categories. A lot of leaders have spoken out and got pushed out or left voluntarily.
You will find a similar mix of leaders for example in the mainline denominations on the issue of theological liberalism and belief in the Bible.
Jesus spoke about different types of leaders in John 10. i. The wolves in sheeps clothing (abusive hypocrites). ii. The hirelings (who care only about their pay and run away when the wolf comes). iii. The true shepherd who lays down his life for the sheep.
I just ask that we be careful not to condemn everyone in the same breath.
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Post by cupatea on Jul 19, 2006 2:05:25 GMT
Philip I'd add another category here. From my experience I was a #3 followed by #6 but then became a #7 where I was not forced out for dissention but I moved out with the blessing of the leaders. I have brought up issues and problems I have seen along the way both while we were in EN and since. I know of at least 2 others who are #7's as well. Maybe this is an Asian phenomenon? Thanks for not painting everyone in the organisation with one big broad brush stroke - the issues are deaper than people.
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Post by helpfulcommentary on Jul 22, 2006 4:33:01 GMT
Phil,
This is an excellent post. It does describe a lot of the categories of people inside.
I think I was a 5, moved to 6, and now moving to 7 which cupatea mentioned. I think the 7 can only exist under non type 1 leaders. The type 1s know you from afar.
hc
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Post by Jason_Coates on Jul 22, 2006 9:14:02 GMT
Philip.
I only ever was a junior leader in HP, but could outline the stages of my involvement, outlook and thinking:
Stage 1. I was naive and loyal and believed that everything my leaders said and did was good, true and correct. I thought HP was the least dysfunctional church on planet earth. I absorbed the teachings I thought were good and suspended judgment on the teachings or practices I did not understand. Sometimes, even including the HP JHB take on discipleship, I just managed not to get involved in. I never discipled or mentored anyone and ended up leading missions in Africa and teaching Bible School.
Stage 2. I began questioning in my mind some of the of faulty logic, strange behavior, relationship issues and leadership practices etc. in the ministry. I was pragmatic and thought they were either inconsequential or just my usual way of seeing things differently and that these "issues" would eventually iron themselves out in my thinking or the ministry would evolve as it matured and grew.
Stage 2 B I then realized that taking up any position of leadership whatsoever in that environment was a huge responsibility and I had to be more careful what I said and did. I also began to examine myself and see how I was adopting the junk and control techniques and other relational modes employed. I then tried on my own as far as I could to walk it out all with personal integrity.
I also began to see that there were people whose responsibilities (such as elders) to sort out these issues and that it was not my job or not my responsibility to take it further when I had made my point to the relevant person/s. I shrugged off personal responsibility as I began less to feel like an enfranchised member of the church and more of an occasional resource.
Stage 3. Moved to a place of realization that I needed to speak out where the battle was worth fighting for and I knew I would see results. This was not often and thus the cause of much frustration. Other battles I could not fight or ever win and I started to distance myself from it all. This was a necessary for me as somehow during this time I realized that there was not much I could say or do that would have any effect. My leadership was of little or no consequence internally with HP.
Stage 4. Coming to the place where I realized that I was not going to be listened to with truth and honor, the strongholds would never be addressed so long as certain beliefs remained entrenched by the powers and their ministry culture. That there was something really wrong as a root or root causes. HP was a lost case for that time.
Stage 4A. Realizing that the bigger picture was worse than I thought and it was not just me and I needed to exit as soon as I could. If I had stayed in the church I would have been living a personal lie no matter how pragmatic I may have felt and no matter how I thought I was being listened to or understood. I realized that I was labeled and that it was going to take an impossible amount of time, energy and meetings to communicate properly and not be patronized. The blessings of God were no longer to be found for my life there as they had in the early years. Had I outgrown the church or had the church outgrown me?
Stage 5: After leaving I realized further that I was a child of God and that being a churchman was not as important as standing up for truth and righteousness. Furthermore, that is was my responsibility/duty/right as a Christian to tell and demand the truth. I saw their covering and authority doctrine for what it was. Just a means to protect their own interests and a tool of insecurity and ministry abuse.
That a Christian would put honor, truth and Justis before anything else relating to the church and its actions, modus operandi etc. That I had every right to point out sin, lies and compromise from my position as a plebeian class born again believer and Son of God.
As to how I see people inside of the congregation now? (these are loose categories, overlap and people may be part of two or more):
1. "The co-opted people". These people made personal compromise a long time ago and will do and believe everything their leaders tell them, and if not, pretend that all is well and they do believe everything told to them and that they will do everything told to them. They have sold their souls to the ministry. The system supposedly protects them. They will deny personal responsibility wherever possible.
2. The naive and misled. That is the people who do not know better or/and are not political animals, yet. This group has various sub categories and levels of naivety. They are unaware of all the deception, lies and cover ups and when they find anything out they are fed the usual spin. This is the people that are the easiest to manage as they are respectful and trusting and do not make great demands on leadership time and effort. I was in this category for much of the earlier time there. This is what you would call the moral majority of the church.
3. The blinded and indoctrinated. They refuse to see anything that makes themselves uncomfortable or anything that does not come down from the senior pastor. They are people that will not stand any criticism or judgment on the ministry. They have absorbed false teachings on authority, covering and submission and will not stomach any questioning of it. They also refuse to think beyond the comfort zones provided for them when it comes to church and church life.
4. The pond fish: swallow feeble explanations, teachings and other mealy worms - hook, line and sinker every time. Not just blinded or naive, but stupid. No real understanding of what a church is meant to be or what is being said or done. These people probably never will unless it is spelled out to them and even then may not understand much. They are attracted to the flash and the vibe and the act.
5. Those who see problems as serious issues but believe that God wants them in the church and they have to either suffer, endure or work through all the stuff:
5A. The broken. These are people that are either been molded into co-dependency in the ministry through abuse and also the people who have been bullied or manipulated into submission. Kind of like the "battered wife syndrome". 5B. The self- hobbled. People who feel that they have no choice but to stay. They have been fed a lie that God wants them nowhere else or that there is not a place for them anywhere else or they have been made financially dependent on the ministry and believe that there is nothing else out there for them. 5C. The old timers. They have been in the ministry for a long time and it is just too much effort to spread their wings. It is more comfortable than uncomfortable for these people as they have established relationships with leaders and are seen as stalwarts. They may quietly express any concern, but remain loyal and faithful to the ministry.
6. The cult. These are people that are manipulative, hypocritical, liars and dealers in the souls of men. These guys will say and do anything to get their way and beware anyone who gets in the way. These guys have the largest networks and operate in a superior realm to the rest.
7. I do not discount that there may be under-covers who believe they can and will make a difference and that God will use them at a certain place or time to act or speak They wisely or unwisely keep silent and although can see the wrongs etc believe that it is God's problem only and are waiting on him. They have seen the big issues and problems and have an understanding of them.
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Post by philiprosenthal on Jul 23, 2006 11:07:37 GMT
Thanks Jason, yes this is another set of valid categorisations, which relates more to the persons situation than their response. In terms of your categorisation, I am a 5C an 'Old Timer'. It was very painful for me to have to break with almost all my old friends, but it was the only way I could preserve my loyalty to Christ. Christ I believe must come first before our friends and our church. He made such demands explicit in the scriptures:
MT 10:34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. MT 10:35 For I have come to turn " `a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--MT 10:36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.'* MT 10:37 "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; MT 10:38 and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me."
I had read that scripture for many years, but never thought it would become relevant. It did, but I am afraid that a lot of my friends who have been in EN and see stuff wrong don't seem to recognise the relevance of the scripture.
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